Nate “Tiny” Archibald played fourteen years in the NBA. He is a member of the basketball Hall of Fame and was named one of the NBA’s Fifty Greatest Players. Currently, he’s the head coach of the ABA’s Long Beach Jam. Recently he was generous enough to sit down for a lengthy interview. What follows is the last in a three-part series.
Broken Cowboy:
You’ve talked a lot about the NBA today. I want to ask you about a few players, some that you played against, some that you watch now. So I just want to throw out some names and just kinda hear what you have to say about them. Larry Bird.
Nate Archibald:
Probably one of the greatest players I played with. People say Larry Legend, I call Larry the Professor. Because before Larry got there, and I was there before him, I tell people if you ever watched the Clint Eastwood western “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,” well we started with the ugly. And then it became the bad, and then it was the good. Because before Larry got there, I don’t think that team won, and I was on that team, probably won about thirty games. When Larry came, I don’t think we lost but thirteen games. Probably one of the biggest turnarounds in basketball. And, you know, the experts were saying -- and I don’t know if they watched Larry play or not in college, he probably had a great college career -- but in the pros they said he couldn’t jump, couldn’t run -- I’m talking about with the players of today -- and he couldn’t shoot. Contrary to everybody’s belief, he did the opposite. He dissected guys, and yes, he might not have jumped as high as a guy like Dominique, but he did the basic fundamentals to guys. He’d box guys out, he learned how to shoot, he learned how to run when he needed to run. So he became a guy that was really harder to contend with because he had a basketball intellect that was higher than everybody else’s. Because people, you watch the NBA today, and the guys are jumping all over the basket now. We don’t have guys, except for maybe a couple of guys, and you’re talking about Richard Hamilton and Ray Allen who have all-around game. Not flashy, mid-range game, long distance game, and drive to the basket. Might get a couple of assists. But you can see that those guys are pretty fundamentally sound. And then you talk about bringing in Asian players and European players that are not jumping over the basket anymore. They are in a system early on where they learn the fundamentals, and mostly shooting because I think shooting -- if you watch some of the guys shoot now, it’s like, wow. And people say why are the scores so low? Because guys are not practicing their fundamentals. They’re not passing the ball as well, they’re not shooting the ball as well, but the ball is not moving as well, because it becomes a two-man, one side of the court offense, and the other three guys are talking, they’re having a conversation over there, they can run up and get some pizza or hot dog and a Coke, and then they have to go back on the other end. So it’s a two-man game. If you watch us play, I try to put five guys playing defense, five guys moving the ball playing offense. And if I ever get into another situation that’s not in a professional league, that’s how I ‘d like to run my offense, because I believe that everybody should have an opportunity to play and also score. But Larry’s probably the best player that I played with, okay. And I know you’re gonna get into other questions about certain guys. See I played against Julius Erving early on, and the only time we played together was when we played All-Star games, on 155th Street, and just All-Star games around the city. But I call Julius Erving, ‘cause I’m friends with the Doc, he’s the ambassador of the NBA. I don’t know who’s the ambassador now. People say Mike was the ambassador, but Julius Erving is the ambassador. I mean he has that demeanor with people, he can talk with people, he’s around people all the time. And then you’ve got superstar guys, you know you see ‘em on TV, but they’re not around the public. They just disappear. So Julius Erving to me was the ambassador.
BC:
He was actually gonna be the next one on my list. Let’s skip to Magic.
NA:
(Long pause.) See, Magic Johnson, and I’m kinda glad that I got out of the league early on, because you kind of pick and choose who you’re gonna play against. And when Magic first got with the Lakers, they had a guy who gave me a hard time anyway, Norm Nixon. And I’m like, “Shit, I’d rather deal with Norm.” ‘Cause I watched Magic play, you know, you’ve got clips on guys. I said, “Goddamn, this guy’s a guard, he’s a forward, he’s a center? I’m not guarding him! I’m gonna deal with Norm, who’s about my size.” There’s nobody like Magic. Kobe’s not like Magic. I think Kobe’s more like a Michael Jordan. Magic to me is like what I call a utility guy. He can do everything. If the team needs somebody to rebound, you’re looking around, “Who’s gonna rebound?” Magic got you fifteen boards. Magic got you ten, fifteen assists. Magic got you thirty points. A guy that size revolutionized the game of basketball. Before him you had George Gervin, but George was more of a scorer. But Magic was more of, I could do everything. I could guard people, I could score, I could pass, I could rebound. He was a utility guy, and what I mean by utility guy, he did everything, whatever you wanted. Just give it to him, and he did it. And I think that people compare a guy like Magic today, they say Magic was like Oscar, but Magic was like Magic because Oscar was six-four, six-five, Magic is six-eight, six-nine. You talk about two different guys on two different levels. So to me Magic was the guy, you know, when you talk about triple doubles, and doing it all, there’s only one Magic. And also revolutionizing the game to make it look like it was fun all the time. I mean, you had guys with game faces all the time, but Magic’s smiling, high-fiving, low-fiving, making the game look like it was fun. Larry and Magic, I think, propelled the game to where -- when it got to be on major TV -- where people started really like, “Oh, man, I like this game.” Now people are like, “Ehhhh...” And there wasn’t a lot of competition with free agency. It was coming to its own, but it wasn’t competition ‘cause if Magic was a Laker he was gonna be a Laker. It wasn’t about well, that guy’s doing this, and he’s making this, and I wanna make this. No. I’m a Laker, I’m gonna be a Laker. Larry Bird was Boston, he’s gonna be a Boston Celtic for life.
BC:
Real quickly, what about Michael Jordan?
NA:
Best player. People say best player ever? I’m just saying the best player in this era. We’re talking about late eighties early nineties. Because now people are kinda like looking at other guys -- and I can name about five guys -- I look at Kobe as the next coming of a Michael Jordan. I look at Kevin Garnett. I mean you talk about so many guys. Allan Iverson, Shaq, ‘cause people say, well, is Shaq gonna be the best ever center? I don’t know. Do you put him with Wilt and Bill Russell, and then I got Bob Lanier. There’s so many guys that you can put in that, and who is the best center ever? People say, well I’m gonna go with Russell and Kareem. Some people say, well I’m gonna go with Wilt and Kareem, because Russell wasn’t really a dominant center, he just had a good team. So I mean, you’ve got different opinions from different people, but I think -- and I never got a chance to play with or against a guy like Michael Jordan -- but I think that when you’re talking about coming to play all the time, it was Michael Jordan. In that era. Late eighties, early nineties. But now you have a guy like Kobe, who’s, to me, trying to do the same thing. I don’t know if he’s gonna be as successful as Michael, as far as winning championships, because Michael did not have a center with him -- excuse me, a dominant center -- with him, he had good pieces around him. But now Shaq is gone, and we’ll see. We’ll see if he can bring a championship to the Lakers without a dominant center.
BC:
One more guy I want to ask you about. Ron Artest.
NA:
Different. And I know him, and I know where he’s from. We come from the same city.
BC:
What I always think about Ron Artest is I remember after his rookie year reading an article in Sports Illustrated about how when he got to the off-season, he was actually out of money because he had been so generous giving to friends, giving to family. Whenever anything negative comes up with him, I always think about that, that this guy obviously is not the villian that he’s been painted, because he’s done a lot of good things for a lot of people.
NA
He has, but we all have. We all have been generous to friends and relatives and stuff, but we haven’t gotten negative press like he has. He’s a very aggressive player. I think that at times he doesn’t control his emotions like he should. This is a situation now that he might be out of basketball for a while and not getting paid. And I don’t know what’s gonna happen. The NBA players association is making an appeal, but the person who can overturn the decision is David Stern, so you’re going back to the same situation. I think it’s unfortunate that that situation happens to him, but I think a lot of teams are looking at that situation and it probably won’t happen again, but it happened. I look at that situation, and I was talking to the coaches, and if I got in a situation with you, I’m looking at how far my bench is, okay, because I’m not a fighter. And if somebody mushed me, and it was a guy like Big Ben, I’m not fighting with him. I don’t care how crazy you think I am, I’m not fighting with him, so I’m trying to ease over to my bench so I got my guys protecting my back. I’m not sitting on the scorer’s table or doing nothing like that. I’m in my elements where I’m around my guys. I’m not going out trying to instigate anything, I don’t want to fight with you in the middle of the court. So I’m kinda like, “Okay, you mushed me. You embarrassed me a little bit.” But I’m sliding over to my guys. When he left that part of it, I thought it was open game. People were talking about what was he doing laying on the scorer’s table? I don’t know. My thing is I want to get by my guys. First of all, my coaches should have been around him trying to circumvent that stuff... especially focusing on the game situation because there’s not that much time on the clock anyway, and trying to get him out of the game and getting him closer to the bench. And when he got over there, all hell broke loose. And I’m not saying he instigated it, but I don’t know how I would’ve reacted, because a lot of people are talking about their reaction now. I don’t know how I would’ve reacted. But my first thing is, first of all, you’re in your right senses when you don’t put your hands up when you don’t put your hands up for a guy that you know that might be bigger and stronger. You’re not that crazy. And I don’t believe he’s crazy. I just think that he’s doing stuff, he wants to be aggressive and beat up on guys and stuff like that, but don’t like to get beat. But now you’re in a situation where you’re gonna lose income because they’re looking at this whole incident and they wanna stop it. And you’ve been having problems with this for the last couple years now. You’ve been getting fined, you were getting suspended for flagrant fouls and stuff, being over aggressive. But now they’re thinking that, hey man, we can’t deal this. Some people need help right now, and we’re not gonna with this, and we’re gonna make an example out of you. And it’s unfortunate it had to happen to a player. My thing was if that would’ve happened to my guys, I’m looking at the guy that I think has a very short fuse, and gotta try to get at them first. I have to. Because if I can get them to the bench, at least if he breaks, and our bench is here, at least if he breaks, we got guys who maybe can grab him. I think he was in a situation where those guys were too far away from him, even though they came to his rescue, but I think that fuels the rest of the guys. Like Stephen Jackson came and was swinging on people. It was an ugly situation to look at. And I look at Indiana as the team, and not second team, as the team to compete with Detroit. But now with so many guys out, and they’re still winning games, but I think it’s gonna hurt them down the road.
BC:
I think now they’ve got an “us against them” kind of mentality, and they can get through a few weeks maybe, but...
NA:
How long can you sustain that winning? It’s not supplementary players or fill-in guys. These are your guys you might have for a while until that appeal is overturned, which I doubt. So these are the guys you’re gonna have to be working with, and they’re playing pretty good now, but Detroit is set. They missed, what, four games, maybe five games? But they’re team, I’m talking about, is set. They’re looking to stay afloat, and they’re looking at the teams that are in the Eastern Conference even though they broke down those divisions. They’re looking at Indiana, they’re looking at Orlando, they might be looking at Miami, teams that they’re looking to see if they’re gonna be in this Eastern Conference finals. But Indiana right now is in trouble. They’re in trouble. They’ve got too many guys out, and Detroit is sitting there with all them veteran guys saying, “It happened, but you know what? It’s unfortunate that it happened to them, but we still gotta maintain our record, and we still gotta go out and compete.
BC:
I agree. I think it’s unfortunate. I kind of feel like the suspensions were a little bit excessive.
NA:
But the appeal guy is...
BC:
...right back to the same judge.
NA:
Right, so it’s unfortunate. And the other thing I want to say is it’s unfortunate for kids to watch that, ‘cause we’re trying to promote hard play, safe sports, and also sportsmanship, and that wasn’t good at all. It wasn’t good to look at it, you saw kids crying in the stands, and I had talked to some of the kids from here, and they were saying, “That was the ugliest game I ever saw.” They weren’t looking at the game, they were looking at what happened during the game. How can you tell them about sportsmanship when you’ve got guys making a lot of money and they react like that? And then when parents or coaches have complications in this little forum, you’re like, it shouldn’t happen. Well it happened there, where people are making millions and millions of dollars, so why can’t it happen on the lower level? And it does all the time.
BC:
You know one thing some of the players, like Charles Barkely came out and said that this situation is just getting worse and worse and worse. The fans are saying more and more things, more and more hateful things. Did you hear some of that when you were playing, or was it different?
NA:
Yes, we heard that, and from your team. We had rivalries with Philly, we had rivalries with LA. They had fights and stuff like that, but it never went beyond the court. The Philadelphia fans treated us bad. They put an umbrella curtain over where we came out because people were throwing eggs and stuff at us, but you know what? We never went after any of the fans. We laughed at them and stuff like that. We were in the playoffs and Maxwell got bumped by Darryl Dawkins. In the old Spectrum the seats were on the floor. Darryl bumped him into one of the fans, and one of the fans had a cup of soda and it splashed on one of the fans. So the fan threw the soda at Max. I had to grab Max. You know what, you get thrown out, I get thrown out, and then they beat us. I said, we gotta concentrate on winning on the game. Fans were cursing at him. But it was happening back then, but I don’t think there were any breakouts with the fans, cause we just said, “You aren’t playing anyway, go sit down.” But now, I don’t know. It’s just gotten to the point that something was gonna happen, and it’s unfortunate that that happened, but people are gonna pay now. People gonna pay. And you look at what the commissioner was trying to do back then, when we had a fight it cost you twenty-five dollars. Now it costs you a couple thousand, it might cost you more than that. But he’s trying to promote good sportsmanship, that’s what he’s trying to do, and it’s not about fighting. It’s not about flagrant fouls. If you watch some of the classic sports highlights, some guys were getting thrown down. So you get teched out, you sit down. I don’t think now that the players are trying to hurt anybody. It’s just that it’s been happening more frequently now, and they’re trying to nip it in the bud. I tell people that the players should be a lot better than we were, because back then they had body checking, hand checking, pulling people down, throwing people down, but now you can’t touch a guy, so it gives you freedom to score. Why they’re not scoring any more points, ‘cause a lot teams are not fundamentally sound. They’re not passing the ball, they’ve got a two-man game, guys are not practicing. And we always tell kids practice, practice, practice. Guys are not practicing on the skill things that they should be doing. It’s always an alley-oop, and I got a dunk, and you’re gonna be on my poster, instead of learning the fundamentals. ‘Cause the kids can’t do that. They can’t jump. A lot of kids are like, “Can you dunk?” I tell them I never got a dunk in my life in a game. I tried it, I could do it in practice, but it doesn’t count in practice. It only counts in a game. I never got a dunk in a game. My thing was, I’m running up and down the court that way, and my legs can only carry me so far, so if I can get a layup or a jumpshot that’s all that matters. I can get you a pass, and I can go on there and rebound a couple times, that’s all that matters. It wasn’t about dunking, it was just about getting a chance to play in the game, that’s it. But the game has gotten bigger and better for the younger guys and for the talented guys, but it’s gonna come back to how fundamentally sound a guy is because you could be in the league two, three years and be jumping like Mike. And you could see how Mike made those adjustments. He came in and he was, come fly with me. But then Mike started learning how to handle the ball a little bit. He was a forward when he first came in, now he’s playing in the backcourt. But he became a utility player, analyzing certain situations. If a guy’s smaller than me, I’m gonna post him up. If a guy’s bigger than me, I’m gonna take him out on the floor. But I don’t gotta dunk all the time now. He started shooting his threes, he got his midrange game, and he perfected the game... Year in and year out Mike was always working on a part of his game, and I think that a lot of guys that part is missing because guys are like, “I’m gonna get my legs fit because I’m gonna fly up on that basket. Just throw it up there, however, I can get it.” And that’s not part of the game anymore. A lot of guys can do that, but a lot of guys are not fundamentally sound like a guy like Mike, who built that up. Because when he first came into the league, he was dunking on everybody. But then he started learning, well I don’t have to dunk all the time. Maybe I’ll get one or two dunks ‘cause guys aren’t letting me get to the rim like I used to. So he started shooting outside, midrange game, passing the ball, his game got a lot better ‘cause he started working on his fundamentals.
BC:
I agree. That’s the greatness of Michael Jordan, I think, is that he was never satisfied.
NA:
Right, he was thinking about things that he had to improve individually and also collectively to win games, and you could see that early on he was getting numbers. Leading the league in scoring and stuff like that, not in assists and not in rebounds. But then you look at when he was during the championship run, he was getting his numbers, he was passing the ball a little bit, he was going out there rebounding, he was more of a vocal leader, like a Magic, and you could see him building up to championship status pretty soon, and that’s what happens.
I grew up in El Paso, and as a young girl of 12, I got Nate Archibald's autograph. I followed the Miners for years. Now, reading this interview, it is obvious that Nate Archibald is an intelligent man, with a lot of class. I am still a fan.
Posted by: robin fischer | January 15, 2006 at 08:18 PM
looking for kim dixon
Posted by: anita benjamin | March 04, 2006 at 08:18 AM